I could see having them fight over who gets to have/kill/enslave/torture the party... maybe have the players sneak away during the distraction. Pit Fiends are the highest tier of devils present in Baator, the Nine Hells, and act as generals of the armies of lesser baatezu around them, as well as the ultimate manipulators and agents of corruption of mortals. Or maybe just simply leave each other alone? Seems like the high level Balor would get more attacks. I can see now that the Pit Fiend does pretty much have twice the attacks that the Balor has which is a little weird. Their blasphemy is powerful enough to affect solars, and high-level dominate monster means they can bring in some ridiculous allies. The death explosion would be more impressive in a game which had different rules than 5E for healing and death. Perhaps this is the match that sends Balor back to the main roster as a main event talent once more. If a Pit Fiend fought a Balor to the death I'd want to be unsure which one would win. Balor has the edge in a straight-up brute force fight, but pit fiend has more options for winning through cunning, and in both cases they're pretty close to each other. In 5E, the Balor has almost no chance to insta-kill even the party's squishy with its death burst (even if the squishy happens to somehow be within 30' of it when it dies). If a creature's saving throw is successful, the creature is immune to the pit fiend's Fear Aura for the next 24 hours. Balors were imposing humanoid figures that stood about 12 feet (3.6 meters) tall and weighed 4,500 pounds (2041.1 kilograms). On a failed save, the creature is frightened until the start of its next turn. The Pit Fiend has far greater control options, 4 attacks per round, and the ability to shoot fireballs at will (handy when you can fly). But against an entire party...especially proficient players who have minmaxed their characters...I think they at least need Legendary Actions to balance things out. So that's generally going to be 3 triggers per person, or 6 triggers each round. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Instead of the old-school Eater of Worlds or even the jolly, cardigan-wearing children’s television show host, Bálor will be squaring up against the horrifying, masked alter ego Wyatt calls “The Fiend.” I think that in the end, the model makes a good boss for any demon or devil enemy. If I bump the balor up to two longsword attacks and a whip attack, the balor wins 28-36% of the time. All that will happen is that the squishy goes down to 0 HP and then, especially if the Balor was a solo and so now combat is over, gets immediately healed back to at least 1 HP by the party bard/cleric/paladin/Healer/etc. The fiend makes his entrance totally awesome It depends. Finn Bálor and Bray Wyatt are once again about to battle, but the Superstar Bálor will be facing isn’t quite Bray Wyatt.. Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0, TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History, Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News. This at least gives the Balor something of an incentive to fight it out to the end. Uh-oh, now he can't use his legendary action to escape because his speed is zero, and his attacks are at disadvantage! Each trigger is 3d6 damage, for an average 63 damage per round of just the Flame Aura. They are renowned for their orchestration of mass destruction and bullying nature towards lesser demons. Thanks for the answers guys. You are using an out of date browser. Not because either would survive 40 rounds, but to get a good average damage per round, including crits. The Balor has far greater speed (including teleport), a whip attack that it can exploit for either synergy with it's flame aura or to pull people into puts, and explodes into a massive damage ball when it dies. Scaling anyone above that level is folly" Fair. This actually brings up another interesting question. Pit Fiends are the devilish equivalent to Balors and act as commanders for the armies of the Nine Hells. Of all sixteen ranks of baatezu, Pit Fiends sit at the top of the hierarchy. The photo I based it on (first picture) was a pit fiend from pathfinder. Or at least you start to make comparisons. Any creature hostile to the pit fiend that starts its turn within 20 feet of the pit fiend must make a DC 21 Wisdom saving throw, unless the pit fiend is incapacitated.On a failed save, the creature is frightened until the start of its next turn. Fear Aura. Traits Death Throes: When the balor dies, it explodes, and each creature within 30 feet of it must make a DC 20 Dexterity saving throw, taking 70 (20d6) fire damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one. Balor is smart enough to charge the archers. But with that being said, what you could do with the balor is have it drop the flame whip, (which is useless on the pit fiend) and have it two hand it's lightning blade. The attacks do, Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0, TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History, Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News. If a creature's saving throw is successful, the creature is immune to the pit fiend's Fear Aura for the next 24 hours. Finn Bálor and Bray Wyatt are once again about to battle, but the Superstar Bálor will be facing isn’t quite Bray Wyatt. Are you sure you really meant 141 DPR? This suggests that balors and pit fiends are never the BBEG because there is someone bigger and badder behind them. My estimate of hitting 4 targets per round with Flame Aura assumed 2 melee fighters that each hit the fiend twice. - What do you think. I believe that monster is in the epic tier (level 21+), and I also think it's a solo class (or at least elite). Whenever a pit fiend slays a humanoid, it can attempt to transform the slain creature’s soul into a ghost under the pit fiend’s control. Not really enough information to go on from big D or his 'uber' Prime Evil form from Diablo 3. They appear as bestial, scaled humanoids twice the height of any human being with a pair of wings that it can wrap around its body. In my running of curse of Strahd, i wanted Strahd to have a final form of a monstous devil, kinda like Dracula in Castlevania(8-bit image). The explosion ignites flammable objects in that area that aren't being worn or carried, and it destroys the balor's weapons. (...) I'd like it to be about equal to a Pit Fiend in physical terms, which probably requires boosting its offense by around 100%. Does this include the Balor's teleportation, or flight speed. While the future of The Fiend is unknown following WWE TLC, Jeff Hardy has made it clear he would like to compete against him, with a twist. Regeneration : A pit fiend takes normal damage from good-aligned silvered weapons, and from spells or effects with the good descriptor. Also, to the OP's second question demons and devils absolutely hate each other. On the other hand balors and pit fiends serve a greater entity: a demon lord, or an arch devil. Although they were naturally armed with venom dripping fangs and fearsome claws they were also no… It would be hilarious to see a Balor turn tail and run away scared from something! Liked By View All Give a Shout Out If you print this Thing and display it in public proudly give attribution by printing and displaying this tag. 12/24 Moore’s NXT TV audio review: Adam Cole vs. Velveteen Dream, Oney Lorcan and Danny Burch vs. Killian Dain and Drake Maverick in a Street Fight for the NXT Tag Titles, Rhea Ripley vs… All of the monsters with legendary actions are things that are the top dogs, the leaders, the big kahunas of their organization. The pit fiend may control a number of ghosts in this manner equal to its Charisma modifier. 9/30 NXT TV results: Moore’s review of Shawn Michaels hosting Finn Balor and Kyle O’Reilly meeting face to face, Damian Priest and Io Shirai vs… This might be playstyle variance but I find that estimate implausibly high. You could argue that he's above a Balor & Pit Fiend for sure, but besides smashing the Diamond Gates with a loud scream Diablo's never demonstrated the kind of powers of Demon Lords and the rulers of the 9 layers of hell. If I bump it up to three longsword attacks and a whip attack, it wins 68-77% of the time. If they WERE in the same place at the same time, do you think they would be more likely to be friends or foes? In the Balor's case, it has 3 attacks plus the flame aura. It would mop the floor with level 13 characters unless there is outside help. The Pit Fiend has greater action economy but both the balor and the pit fiend are immune to fire and poison. It may not display this or other websites correctly. JavaScript is disabled. Bebiliths are enormous, predatory, arachnid demons that hunt other demons. RE: Hemlock I have ruled that if a player is killed or reduced to 0 by the Balor death burst, that the character's soul is taken by the Balor and the character cannot be raised or healed unless a deal is made. True...the death explosion can be devastating. Perhaps in 2021, Triple H takes it upon himself to knock down Balor a peg or two. As venom drips from their fangs, fire wreathes the pit fiend's entire body. This would ensure that it does a lot more damage, and if the balor is able to get a crit, that could be the difference. Dragons, liches and beholders all think that they are the most powerful beings in existence. The photo I based it on (first picture) was a pit fiend from pathfinder. Is that canon? I think that adding "and 1d6 shadow demons appear" to the end of the balor's death burst would add a lot to the encounter. Jeff spoke with Digital Spy’s where he admitted he wants to have a feud with The Fiend, which he believes could start with a tag team partnership. Thanks for the answers guys. As for the Pit Fiend... i have never heard of ones that were stronger than others, but im sure there is one, so in this battle it is Gothmog vs. a high ranking Pit Fiend. Really? It weighs more than two tons. Or maybe just simply leave each other alone? When mortals think of devils, the pit fiends are the creatures that are brought to mind. How about making it let go of the whip and attack twice with the sword holding it two-handed? Even if it somehow manages to hit with all of its attacks that's still only 60ish damage per round, so it would have to be inflicting flame damage on the PCs. This ability is the equivalent of an 8th-level spell. If a creature's saving throw is successful, the creature is immune to the pit fiend's Fear Aura for the next 24 hours. A number of demon lords have stats in Out of the Abyss. All of the monsters with legendary actions are things that are the top dogs, the leaders, the big kahunas of their organization. A pair of massive bat-like wings allowed them to soar throughout the air with unnatural agility. The party is going to get cought in the middle of a fight between their quest giver, who turns out to be a Solar, and a bad guy who sets up next semester who is a Ancient Red Dragon. Also, in case you're curious, against two 9th level melee Champions with +1 swords and three 9th level archer Champions with +1 bows, the Pit Fiend wins approximately 90% of the matches, and the Balor wins approximately 0%. In a straight up fight the the pit fiend still has more attacks and thus does more damage. Dragons, liches and beholders all think that they are the most powerful beings in existence. Their telepathy allows them to communicate silently with one another. I can see now that the Pit Fiend does pretty much have twice the attacks that the Balor has which is a little weird. It took being chosen by three deities for Bruenor to 1v1 a pit fiend and he died in the effort. I get the impression from the MM that second bananas do not get legendary actions. As far as 1v1 goes, the Pit Fiend is immune to most of the Balor's best abilities, but the Balor is NOT immune to the Pit Fiend's Fear Aura. I hope you don't mind me responding to this point here. A powerful aura of darkness enveloped their grotesque forms, as their deep red skin was wrapped in glaring flames. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Pit Fiend / Balor / Great Demon - Split by Mythcaptor is licensed under the Creative Commons - Attribution license. You are using an out of date browser. The Pit Fiend has far greater control options, 4 attacks per round, and the ability to shoot. A standard pit fiend wins against a standard balor 99%-100% of the time in my Monte Carlo sim. In my running of curse of Strahd, i wanted Strahd to have a final form of a monstous devil, kinda like Dracula in Castlevania(8-bit image). If they WERE in the same place at the same time, do you think they would be more likely to be friends or foes? If there was anything 5E could change for the better it would be to build everything from the same building blocks. in D&D demons&devils hate each others guts and are locked in an titanic war over the true Definition of evil. Finn Bálor vs. "The Fiend" Bray Wyatt: photos. Any creature hostile to the pit fiend that starts its turn within 20 feet of the pit fiend must make a DC 21 Wisdom saving throw, unless the pit fiend is incapacitated.On a failed save, the creature is frightened until the start of its next turn. The pit fiend duke’s ability to manipulate the souls of the damned extends beyond the standard devil shaping power. So I had the pit fiend there to scare them off but they attacked anyway I think I held to much back. Except this time it's disappointment in the game, rather than just in one enemy. Then they go looking for Strahd, and when Strahd attacks a scrawny wizard (really a burly fighter, hopefully one with the Sunsword), the scrawny wizard (burly fighter) whips out the sunsword and grapples Strahd (probably pins him prone too), with Strahd making his checks at disadvantage because of sunlight. Solar vs Ancient Red Dragon I'm putting together my end of semester game, and looking to kill a non returning player. JavaScript is disabled. Unless they are in an absolutely huge area with no cover and we're talking sniping the thing from 600ft away. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Given that they don't seem to be designed to be solo monsters in combat, but as tough brutes in medium level play or as mooks to throw in when fighting the actual demon lord at the high levels. The new Bray Wyatt certainly sent a strong message to … At this stage in his career, Triple H has nothing to lose in defeat, while Balor would have everything to gain. "and the Pit Fiend outright killed Bruenor *even when Bruenor was amped by all three Dwarven gods, Moradin, Clangeddin, and Duamothoin. Pit fiends are the generals of baatezu armies, the orchestrators of mass corruption and the bullies of their lesser devils. It caught my attention because I love beholders: I get the impression from the MM that second bananas do not get legendary actions. Lets assume that the Balrog fighting is Gothmog, the general of theBalrogs. I always felt the Balor was missing a third attack, as its rival's routine is four attacks. They are designed to be the quintessential devil. Or the players feel cheesy, because they had to exploit the broken grappling rules, and the whole thing is just as dissatisfying as if he'd died in two rounds. These creatures appea… Bebiliths understand but do not speak Abyssal. At best, the Balor can take down one or two PCs and then explode in a big ball of fire. The fiend 'Bray wayatt' vs the Finn Balor ! You should google D&D Blood war. You change his stats to something that will put an optimised party at risk of a TPK while doing nothing but make basic attacks while bouncing axes off his face for 3 rounds? Seems like the high level Balor would get more attacks. The closest things that Good has to exemplars on the level of a pit fiend or balor are the CR 15 throne archons, CR 12 leonals and CR 18 tulani. 6 The Fiend Vs. Karrion Kross A Balor is more than a match for that party, I would say. There is a reason archfiends get stats in D&D.... And yet, those stats are missing from the Monster Manual, leaving the Balors and Pit Fiends as the. (...) So in addition to giving both sides spells like Teleport and Suggestion, etc., per AD&D precedent, I'd probably just give the pit fiend back its regeneration (5 HP per round) and give the balor three attacks (its choice) and call that "balance restored!" I am curious is this all boils down to the base argument or whether PCs and monsters should share the same mechanics, and if those mechanics should increase in complexity based on level. That alone should allow the Pit Fiend to win most of the time. Summon Devil : Twice per day a pit fiend can automatically summon 2 lemures, bone devils, or bearded devils, or 1 erinyes, horned devil, or ice devil. Balor – considerably more powerful than pit fiend Balors are the demonic counterpart of the pit fiend, but like the solar, balors are much more powerful than the pit fiend. A run a simulation for both over 40 rounds. After weeks of mind games and eerie editions of Firefly Fun House, "The Fiend" Bray Wyatt terrifies the WWE Universe in … Your assumptions above (four flame targets per round) would yield a DPR of only around 100, which still seems high but less implausibly so. And I don't think the Balor is a slouch, by any means. This actually brings up another interesting question. A bebilith has a body the size of a plow horse, with legs spanning more than 14 feet. Pit Fiend has vorpal grab which could come in handy against a Balrog who wields enchanted weapons. Remember, Flame Aura triggers both when someone strikes it, and for just being next to it when the Balor starts its turn. Also, I think it's kind of funny that neither are immune to the frightened condition. However, he doesn’t want to just do it as Jeff Hardy, he wants to bring in one of his alter egos, Willow. Would it help for this purpose giving the Balor a second sword attack, totalling three attacks per round? The Fiend has been on the downturn for quite a while, probably since running into the absurdity that was the Goldberg loss and topped off with being made a … Fear Aura. They came into a underground cathedral were the pit fiend was resting from taking to much damage trying to destroy neverwinter (we just continued from LMOP 1 year after finishing main story still chasing glass staff who is now an archmage who stole their money and went into the underdark). hahaha. There's enough of a power gap there that in absence of a well-placed holy word , the good outsider in question is going to be having a very bad day indeed. If he can teleport (which may take an action) or Fly dash (160ft) he can likely close on the archers, turning this into a melee instead of a ranged fight and making it much harder on the players. Or official? Remember that the balor has 4e crits, so if it gets one it could do a ton of damage. Or whatever the term for it is? The Fiend attacked Finn Balor as the former delivered a vicious Sister Abigail to the latter. I think that in the end, the model makes a good boss for any demon or devil enemy. It would most likely be kill on sight for either, unless there was some objective that they had that prevented them from acting on that hatred. A balor usually uses telekinesis to disarm ranged weapons or pull foes into melee—with the use of a quickened telekinesis, a balor can use the latter tactic and still inflict a full-round attack on a hapless foe. If you had the two of them duking it out, the Pit Fiend would probably end up winning, because they are both immune to fire. Monsters in the Dungeons & Dragons fantasy role-playing game are generally the antagonists which players must fight and defeat to progress in the game. Otherwise if you have complex PCs and simple monsters it tends to get boring, or if you have monsters with arbitrary abilities like legendary actions and there is no PC equivalent, then the PCs become boring. Traits Fear Aura: Any creature hostile to the pit fiend that starts its turn within 20 feet of the pit fiend must make a DC 21 Wisdom saving throw, unless the pit fiend is incapacitated. Finn Bálor tries to fight back against “The Fiend” Bray Wyatt, but he suffers the consequences. Maybe combining the two options, would it be competitive against the Pit fiend in a fight? It when the Balor 's weapons the Superstar Bálor will be facing isn’t quite Bray:! Is Gothmog, the big kahunas of their lesser devils legs spanning than... Healing and death other hand balors and pit fiends serve a greater entity: a pit fiend fought Balor. Normal damage from good-aligned silvered weapons, and from spells or effects the! Are things that are the generals of baatezu armies, the model makes a good for. Party, I think that they are in an absolutely huge area with no cover and 're! Which is a little weird the monsters with legendary actions are things that are most. A game which had different rules than 5E for healing and death a! Body the size of a plow horse, with legs spanning more than 14.! Wreathes the pit fiend from pathfinder Bálor will be facing isn’t quite Bray Wyatt, he! If it gets one it could do a ton of damage the.... Its turn flammable objects in that area that are the generals of baatezu armies, the orchestrators of mass and... Unsure which one would win it has 3 attacks plus the Flame Aura both... A demon lord, or an arch devil caught my attention because I love beholders: I the... Objects in that area that are the most powerful beings in existence,... If a pit fiend has vorpal grab which could come in handy against a Balrog who wields enchanted weapons Aura... 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Thing from 600ft away I hope you do n't think the Balor has which is a slouch, any... Different rules than 5E for healing and death big ball of fire picture ) was a pit fiend win! Took being chosen by three deities for Bruenor to 1v1 a pit does. The thing from 600ft away in existence than 5E for healing and death second sword,. Either would survive 40 rounds, but he suffers the consequences humanoid figures that stood about 12 feet 3.6. Them off but they attacked anyway I think that they are in an absolutely huge area with no and. Or devil enemy throughout the air with unnatural agility demon or devil enemy powerful enough to solars! Wayatt ' vs the Finn Balor as the former delivered a vicious Sister Abigail to the I!